Leafs fire head coach Carlyle
TSN.ca reports …. Maple Leafs fire head coach Carlyle; Horachek and Spott take over
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TSN.ca reports …. Maple Leafs fire head coach Carlyle; Horachek and Spott take over
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I still say the Leafs have been victimized by bad coaching. They were playing without a system. I think Horachek will teach a sound defensive game which he learned from Barry Trotz.
One game against Washington is not enough. It’s going to take time to learn a new system and playing as a unit in all 3 zones.
I’m not saying the Leafs are great, but they’re much better than under Carlyle.
Carlyle has now run two teams into the ground. That Stanley Cup he won in Anaheim is now a distant memory and looks more like a fluke and the consequence of having 2 hall of fame defencemen and a goalie with a career year. Afterward, Anaheim sucked and then improved quickly with Boudreau. Carlyle then proceed to drive the Leafs into the ground like Anaheim. Worst coach ever.
Carlyle had a winning record with a team with nothing at center and a terrible blueline.
We say this about everyone, Maurice is genius then he’s the worst, Wilson who gets exposed and now Carlyle. At least Randy is Wilson and crying/making excuses to the media that he couldn’t coach Phil. Wilson was 100 times worst than Carlyle, I mean giving JML 20 minutes a game?
I didn’t like Wilson either, nor Paul Maurice for that matter. The Leafs haven’t had a good coach since Pat Quinn.
Even if the Leafs are losing, I at least want to see them playing some kind of system. Right now it looks like nobody knows what the hell they’re doing.
To be fair we complained about the blueline during the Quinn era too, really from Aki Berg to McCabe to Dion it’s been a graveyard of defensemen. Even during Burke’s ‘I like to be 10 players deep on the blueline’.
It’s pretty sad that the Leafs are this desperate for Mike Babcock that should speak volumes about this roster.
I was hoping they’d grab Barry Trotz in the summer. Another missed opportunity and putting all the eggs in one basket (eg, Babcock).
leafy, system or not…The core is also quite terrible.
Moral of this story, you cannot build a team with a shortcut.
Agreed there. But I felt I fresh start with a new coach was needed.
Yeah McCabe was the whipping boy of Leaf fans. In retrospect, Aki Berg was Scott Niedermeyer compared to Jake Gardiner.
Tell you the truth, I never had a problem with Aki Berg. I didn’t like Cory Cross though (even though he scored an important OT goal against Ottawa).
Best Leaf blueline was
Ellet – Gill
Rouse – Lefebvre
Mironov – Jamie McMustache
People talk about Wendal in the Sundin deal but Quebec was really high Lefabvre.
Not high end skill there but everyone played a role.
Today’s Leafs are Burke left overs of just collecting a bunch of skill/talent. I don’t hate the pieces just the collection.
Yeah Lefebvre was steady as a rock and a great fighter.
After the Leafs lost Lefebvre and Rouse, it took years for the blueline to recover.
I liked the 1999 defence too:
Yuskevich-Markov
Berard-Kaberle
Karpovtsev-Cote
That was pretty good.
That brief stretch when we added Leech, it was just so fun to watch that team.
I’d do everything possible to move Gardiner. I was a strong Gardiner backer, but that’s ancient history.
He’s no longer a prospect. Hee’s now simply the worst defenceman on the team.
I am not opposed to trading Gardiner but not at all costs. I am not convinced he is as bad as some think. Even over paid elite athletes need confidence and to know they are believed in. This is a fanbase that chased Larry Murphy out of town because he was washed up and he went on to play 5 good years in Detroit and help them win 2 cups.
Hopefully new coaching makes a difference with Gardiner.
He looked better…Some of his -‘s (Bad line changes by Kadri/ Kessel, Reilly turnover, etc.) were not his fault.
It’s still a risk…If I had one criticism of Carlyle, it was his inability to develop and actually destroy solid prospects.
McKegg & Leivo deserved more time TOI then Colton Orr, they have more ability to use there skill then Orr.
Agreed, but that lost look on he lack of back check, except Clarkson(how is the deepest guy the first back?) from teammates worries me. He has talent and like I said not opposed to moving him but would need to be a hockey deal. I do like that from what I have seen Horachek appears to be a teacher & shows and explains. Does this mean I am ready to say make him coach no, but these guys need a teacher. Too many lost years on some of the prospects already, hopefully it isn’t too late.
Maybe it is, guys like Ashton and others are probably done.
However…Some other guys will be coming up and drafted this year, so there needs to be a coach that is committed to actually developing players.
Ya, very true here is hoping that all isn’t lost in that department.
I agree about Gardiner. While moving him for the right piece could give us some much needed cap space and not risk Gardiner doesn’t inprove his game over the next 3 years we shouldn’t move him for a mid round draft pick or anything.
I’m sure Buffalo was faced with the decision to move Myers for next to nothing or ride him out and hope he was just a young defenseman who needed some time.
I know Buffalo is much happier now with Myers than worhout and if we chase Gardiner out the door without a solid return or a plan to replace the minutes we will be worse off now and later.
Either we get back a return based on Gardiner’s potential or we hold on to him and see where he is at his prime.
Maybe Nonis could fleece MaTavish with Gardiner and Reimer for Nurse lol.
Nurse would be just what the doctor ordered. No pun intended.
Love Chris Johnston’s Sportsnet article, where Polak speaks up and says team is committed to defense because it’s hard work and has off again to Franson for being so honest, give this man a letter on his sweater!!!!
Exactly. I was thinking the same thing.
I have also discovered proof reading is a good thing lol, wow
Just curious, what do you guys think of the call by some to tank? I know some will disagree with me, but I don’t like it. I think it promotes a losing is ok environment and well that’s already our problem. Would I be sad if we played hard and by some fluke landed one of the top prospects, no as long as they played hard.
Everyone harped on the gong show in Tampa between management and ownership, then they landed Stamkos and suddenly they were talking about their bright future.
The prize of tanking this year is worth it, just imagine the excitement of McDavid or Eichel. Being a Leafs fan would be fun again.
It’s this cycle of mediocrity that all Canadian markets are mired in, of trying to be too good too fast that needs to end.
Then you have Edmonton, who drafted the wrong players to build the franchise around.
Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, & Yakupov…Or Seguin, Landeskog, & Murray? Funny how things could have changed.
One team that is building a decent team is Calgary. Burke has done a fine job there…But it’s all because they drafted Sean Monahan, a Burke-type player.
Eichel & McDavid would be the dream…But a Strome or Zacha is a great consolation prize. This is a deep draft, I would love for the Leafs to acquire another 1st round pick to draft a PF (Rantanen? Crouse?) or a D-Men.
LOSE LEAFS LOSE.
I meant to say that Tampa is like Edmonton, if/when Edmonton lands McEichel suddenly although those wrong pick become a great core of forwards. Pieces fall into their proper role. Eichel-RHN-Draistail? Solid rebuild. With Nurse coming up.
Here MacT shit himself IMO is the summer he could have dealt Hall to Boston for Seguin. But back then, like the Leafs, the Oilers were too in love with their own bs.
I don’t think Hall was the wrong pick actually. I would have drafted Landekcog first, however I would also would’ve taken Galchenyuk first is 2012 to be honest, Murray or Reilly would’ve also been better then Yak too
Seguin has been better than Hall, not to mention one is a C and the other is a winger.
Also, Landeskog is a leader, two-way, scoring power forward.
Galchenyuk would be #1…But Edmonton needed a D-Men and that would be Murray.
I agreed with Landeskog, lol.
As for the hall/ Seguin debate, Seguin has only recently been better and was traded for character issues. So was Hall really the wrong pick? too early to tell, IMO.
Yes Edm needed D but it may have been smarter to try and trade back and gain picks too?
And everyone said that Seguin would be the better talent in the long term but it’s Edmonton so on draft day it’s ‘OMGERD HALL IS SO SHINEY’
Then they blow they’re load on over paying stiff UFAs and thank them for choosing Edmonton.
Devils advocate says you have no idea if Seguin, Landeskog and Murray would’ve became who they are in Edmonton.
You’re conparing 3 players on separate teams to 3 players on the same team
True. But I doubt it would have changed much. Would be interesting to see how Seguin would have been, not starting his career on a winning team.
Landeskog-Seguin-Eberle would be better than Hall-RNH-Eberle
I’m not sure I can agree with that. Hall is better than Landeskog. Darryl Sutter called Hall the best LW in the game last season.
Also you’re seriously under rating RNH. He’s on the verge of superstardom. I would not be one bit surprised if he caught up to or surpassed Seguin in a few years, extremely creative player.
I would’ve taken Landeskog over RNH, based on leadership. However I would’ve take Hall over Seguin at that point as well. Seguin was already traded do to character issues, Hall is the good solider. I think these guys are fairly even depending on what you want out of a player more then points?
Many of the arguments being made TODAY are the same ones I made FIVE years ago, ie, that you MUST build through the draft and that the Kessel deal was the wrong deal at the wrong time, for which I received a lot of flack from Leaf fans and because I refused to conform to the popular viewpoint. Everyone drank the Burke kool-aid. Not me.
So, you pretty much HAVE to build through the draft, especially now in the salary cap era. It’s no longer a question of opinion or philosophy.
Glad everyone’s come around on this point.
IMO Burke made one error as a GM…But that one error has led the Leafs to there current mess.
I think having Shanny in management will change things for the better. He’s from the great Detroit era, and he knows that taking shortcuts won’t make you a winner.
I Know Wallace fears Nonis…But Nonis cannot make a decision without the approval of Shanahan.
Not to mention…The Leafs are starting to clean up the front office and every strong organization starts with the top.
They added Dubas, an upcoming GM that atleast has a philosophy when it comes to players he likes (analytics).
Also, I loved the addition of Mark Hunter. Stealing one of the smarter men in hockey was a positive sign for this franchise.
Yes very good signs.
they still need more work at the top they need to hire good solid hockey people…i think the leafs made a mistake by letting rick dudley go,another mistake made by burke…..
I remember when there would have been what seemed like 5000 comments on this article.
But anyway what I want to know is based on all of the diff views and bashing of Kessel for this and that, what do you guys think od Preds GM David Poile coming to his defense? Poile is a respected hockey man so his view carries weight with me at least. Now most will say this is where you hope maybe Poile still has interest in Kessel? Kessel, who didn’t want to go to Nashville might now to get away from a media centre sh!t storm like major markets have. Is there anything of interest in Nashville that’s doable? I know some will say just dump the contract, but that can’t be the only return for a player of Kessels skill set, IMO.
Well so far I’m happy with Shannys work. He was very methodical and fair with Carlyle. Gave him the extra year to help alleviate the lame duck status. The extra money reflects well on the organization as well, don’t be cheap if it doesn’t affect the cap spend that money. Show potential future hires that you treat employees well and fair. Even though the Leafs were more or less sitting where pundits predicted, a bubble team, it was pretty clear a change was needed.
Now we can truly evaluate the core and see what needs to be changed. Some patience is needed. It took Boudreau essentially right up to the next season to really turn the Ducks around. I’d be hesitant to make a major move before the off-season unless it’s truly clear by the deadline.
So far Horachek looks to me be a very capable coach, this could easily be the guy for the job. Very interesting second half of the season coming up.
Ya I am liking Shanahan so far. Agreed on Horacek really rooting for this guy to succeed.
There will be no tank, no way we are getting a top pick. Only way is to get super lucky with the lottery and Bettman would give it to a struggling franchise not his biggest money earner. Better start hoping one of the second tier of prospects pans out.
well if your going to trade kessel to nashville i think you ask for fillip forsberg and part of the package and build around him and nylander that’s a start for the leafs ,they i think you trade franson for a pick or 2 ,try and trade kadri for something tangible i think some teams will take a shot at him
Hard time seeing Nashville part with Forsberg, but yeah you would want that back as a start. Or Jones. Him and Rielly would be a solid future top pairing. Need to take some major salary back both ways though. I’d do Kessel for Weber straight up, wouldn’t be enough though.
Weber is not leaving Nashville…That is a pipe dream.
I also cannot see Nashville being interested in Kessel, some very good wingers there. They need a #1 C…Might be more interested in Staal.
Now…If I was Columbus, I would be interested. I would have the cap space and the type of Center that would make both him and Kessel a deadly pairing (Johansen).
I like Wennberg as a start.
What about NYI? They tried to sign Vanek long term, so they are clearly in the market for a top line winger. Kessel and Tavares would be deadly together. They also have a relatively deep pool of prospects to draw from.
Strome and Dal Colle would be a start.
If I was dealing with Snow, I would look to get Strome and Reinhart try and improve two areas at once. And really based one their position in the standings, Snow might be inclined to give more then he would based on a playoff run scenario. He would also be off the hook for the Vanek trade as the pick most likely gets higher.
Why would Snow even consider Kessel?
A young, up-and-coming team that can score with 3-lines and elite offensive talents/prospects.
They would be more interested in Gardiner.
Giving Tavares a top 5 offensive winger would have to have some appeal.
Besides, Snow doesn’t always make the smartest deals. I could see him going for Kessel as the piece to put the Isles over the top.
weber would be untouchable… i think a package of forsberg and josi would be enough
Weber isn’t untouchable, we just would have to add add add, lol. I am impressed at your proposal of what Nashville would have to give to land Kessel. And I do think Poile would be interested just based on that he previously tried to trade for Kessel and has publically backed him in a non-Olympic year
Weber is untouchable, it would take one of the best players or Conor McDavid in the league to take him out of Nashville.
Nashville has one of the best players in the league signed up to a reasonable contract, no doubt anything Toronto offers would change that.
Would NOT change that.
That’s the thing, he is ultimately untouchable because he is so talented and his contract is 3 years away of being the best in the league. Under $8M in cap and $6M in salary is a dream contract and Nashville has already paid enough cash to not care about paying $12M for 3 seasons.
Which means to get him someone has to offer a stupid overpayment. Kessel won’t get it done, even Kessel + Gardiner might not interest them and any more than that is a step backwards for the Leafs IMO.
Only thing left to do is offer a rediculous package of prospects that will only create holes in our roster while not freeing up any cap (Gardiner, Nylander, Kadri, 1st) or any combination / addition is not something I am prepared to pay. (I know without a Kessel for Weber type deal we won’t try to acquire Weber but I had to hammer the point home, lol).
Forsberg is a great young player to target but I would hate to see Kessel go just for Forsberg, even with the cap dump unless of course we are selling our core to start a fresh rebuild, then that might be a decent target although I would want a lot more.
i still think eber is untouchable plus why add him? your rebuilding and he ‘s not the piece(s) you need again he has a kessel type contract and that will justt hamstring you and you’ll be in the same postion your in now it’s time to rebuild with soldi youngs guy,di it now and do it properly…it’s time to add a gm like bergevin that ‘s from outside the organization that has no ties to the leaf,somebody like him that can do the job in a short time like he’s done with us( the habs) he has us in almost contender status and has never finished any lower than 3rd in the division his his 3 years there we’ve had a !st place finish,a3rd placefinish and a trip to the conference final and he has us well on our way to great things,so the leafs need to hire a guy with a vision like hs….. as for trading kessel to nashville that’s where you ask for forsberg and a pece like josi and a 1st rd pick idf you have to add something add a small element to it like a 2016 2nd rd pick as that pick will be fairl early so i think that satfies poile, then i think you trqade kadri sand reimer to minnesota for coyle and matt dumba , then in the off season trade phaneuf for whatever you get even sweeten it by telling the team you’ll pick a portion f his contract just so they take him…re sign franson as he’s a solid veteran and he’s helps with the development of rielly and percy then gets a spot next yea with the 1st rd pick you have of yours you add a center in the draft and with the pick from nashville you draft for needs …
Big California trip this week. A bit jealous of the Leafs right now. 20 C in LA today.
So 9 of 11 games are now on the road. If they’re ever gonna blow it up, we’ll find out by Feb 6th.
Not sure what to think of this trip. I can’t see them doing overly well, but you never know? But it’ll determine the course of action that’s taken for sure.
Play on this trip like we did the last 10 games and we will be in the top 5 draft position.
With the Leafs now actually playing a system, I don’t rule out a resurgence.
I am scared to see they p[lay well with a system actually, as I wonder for how long can tey maintain said play? Is a crash and burn better so to speak, I am not sure? I love the idea of better drafting and agree core pieces should be changed regardless of better play as this team needs something more. I would rather ship out Phaneuf then Kessel though. While he isn’t a guy who looks like he will ever be “the man” he is the type of guy who that player make better and flourish in a better environment. I mean for all the things people don’t like replacing a top5-10 scorer won’t be easy, IMO